Project Easy-Texture

For those working on art content.

Is this a good idea?

Yes, great!
5
83%
No, Terrible, it won't work.
1
17%
 
Total votes : 6

Postby adamsderk » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:55 pm

Felderup,

Many of the constraints come from the engine itself. Torque can only handle one texture layer. Swapping the texture out for another takes about 1.5 seconds, long enough for a major hiccup in battle (it works for RPG where the texture is loaded at start-up and never changes).

It is funny that you mention ImageMagick as it is the program that I use to generate the faction textures (you don't think I do them individually do you?). There is no practical way to integrate it into Torque, and I wouldn't need to anyway. Torque has many image manipulation functions built in, they are mostly used for the terrain and GUI. But like any image manipulation, they are slow. It is better to pre-construct the image then do them at run-time. That is why commercial games take up so much disk space; art content.

The real issue with texture generation comes in multiplayer as each "generated texture" has to be sent to all the players (so they all see the same thing). That really slows down the start of the game (which is already too slow). Not that I am making my game for multiplayer, but it is a factor.

Smoking_Mirror,

Thanks for the kudos. I figure actions speak louder than words, so I let my game speak for itself. The motivation behind development is a big factor in success. Many just want to make something to get someones attention and get a job. I already have a job, I want to play the game that "they" will never make. That means I'm willing to come back to it even when it gets tiring and a headache.

Hey, I'm 31% to the goal of all the Mechs (granted, only about 20% are actually in the game, but the "texturizer" you are doing should help with that).

Thanks.
Image
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Postby felderup » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:07 am

i don't know anything about the engine, but somehow i learned there was support for two layers, i'll adjust, after i hide in my room and cry for a few hours. aaanyway, perhaps it'd be a good idea to see if, perhaps, during game install the textures could be generated, for a smaller download. maybe generate the texture when it's first asked for, then there would only be the unmixed texture files until the first run, then afterwards only textures that have been used before.

what i was suggesting would work for multiplayer quite well, and would take the same amount of time as it does now. the texture is generated on the client system, unless it already exists, all you send is the texture name.
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Postby Smoking_Mirror » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:29 pm

I've been away for a while working on some thing else, and generally taking a break from robots, but now the something else requires me to revisit robots from a new angle.

Part of this involves reviewing my decision to make a Easy texture option for robots. I'm now approaching from a different angle, Using a different program, Mapzone

Mapzone allows procedural textures t be created. In this way I can create a simple (or as it's turning out, not so simple) procedural texure and then all people need to do in order to create anew texture is create a couple of basic BMPs showing #1; a height map, and #2; an area mask.

By specifying materials by their position in a grey scale palette several potential textures, such as rusted metal, chipped paint, shiny metal etc... can be applied to different parts of the model's UV texture map. The textures will be modified using the height map whih can also be used to create a Normal map, (or now that blender supports, at least in testing stages tangent space normal baking, a displacement map) and a shine/ reflection map.

All that is needed is the initial simple UV maps.

Stay tuned for how this turns out. If it works I'll use it to texture the war hammer model I made a while back and create a tutorial so others can use it in future.
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Postby felderup » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:20 pm

so, instead of having to send master textures a group of short text files for the texture generator could be sent?
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Postby Smoking_Mirror » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:25 am

Yeah, someone would have to construct the final texture, baking them with the model and then constructing them with photoshop or the Gimp, but otherwise it'd be really quick to do.

Had some progress with this but I'm having trouble keeping the detail level up as high as I want it. The procedural generator is going to have to be quite complex if I'm going to allow the inputs to be really simple.

Image

Heres a preview of something I was working on for a personal project. It uses the prototype procedural texture along with a few decals.[/img]
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howabout we base it of of mw4

Postby LeonKerensky » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:29 pm

i honestly think that we should do what Microsoft did with mechwarrior 4, and make 3 layers. 1st layer will be the color; 2nd layer will be the panel lines, rivets, ect; and the third will be the unit markings.

once we've done... oh say... 1 paint scheme for each faction + some extra camo, than we can mix and match everything as we need, and if we want to so exclusive paint schemes for specific mechs, we can do that later.
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Postby felderup » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:37 pm

i suggested that a while back, can't be done, torque supports one layer, but yeah, i still think it'd be a somewhat decent way to go. i also suggested generating the textures at first use, it'd be a somewhat large change, one of which would be renaming the textures to a numbers only system, and running the request through a side app when the file isn't found, instead of buggering itself.
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Postby LeonKerensky » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:23 pm

true, but an example of what i mean is;

make each of the three layers, and save them in my documents. than, for example, add MAD CAT texture with CLAN WOLF paint scheme, than add CLAN WOLF DECALS, and merge the layers. once done SAVE AS "madcat map 1" (or whatever your names are for the skins) and save it where it needs to go.

for the other skins, just mix them around in every combination and SAVE AS [mech name & unit]

do you see what i'm saying?
(i have photoshop, so thats how i make multiple paint schemes for WoV)
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Postby adamsderk » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:50 pm

Leon,

That is sort of what I do. I ask for a base texture, a primary color map, a secondary color map, and a detail texture. I then use imageMagick along with some logo location info to blend them together to make the final faction textures.

Thanks.
Image
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Postby elitewolverine » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:43 am

well although i do like the simpilization of the system and would help alot in terms of popping out mechs...

But im going to have to be one of the critics...

IMO, coming from someone that loves the art in terms of mech personality/individuality, or just the little things on different mechs that dont show up on any other mech. Gets lost when we try to simplify it to much...

Plus, in IMO again, Modeled details in terms of paneling etc, creates a certain shadow effect that is hard to achieve from a base texture as well as the effect that the actual lines are there in terms of bump without bumpmapping because simple shadows are there...

So im split i would say. I think a general layout like you had before so that we could add special paint schemes (which is basic photoshop stuff as another layer), is awesome...

But there is just some details that cant be done on a "general" texture file, one hard example is the Kodiak, each torso is different with odd paneling, and specific paneling that should only bee seen on that mech and no other...

so in conclusion:

I feel that with "one" base texture or even a few "base" textures that would make texturing each mech much simpler, I just cant help but think that with over 200mechs or even 300, that when someone that is nitpicky starts piloting them etc, will notice that we used a "base" texture for a IS mech and a Clan mech, or any two mechs that dont share parts (ie legs), and see that and notice it right away...and think not in a bad way, 'oh they just rehatched the texture'

Just as a reminder that is my opinion of custom textures for each mech, vs simplified version, and not knocking in anyway shape or form the simplified system, as i wouldnt have to worry about the texture, i would just have to model, uv-unwrap (which i find harder this way imo), and send off to get completed. Which well would save me tons of time and allow me to model more stuff...


oh yea P.S., the highlander looks good but way to skinny, the highlander is a big fat pig that can jump, to me it looks 65tons not 100tons early era tech
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Postby Smoking_Mirror » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:35 am

Well, in the end I abandoned the idea of a single texture sheet. Using a procedural texture generator works much better.

There are some repeated elements, but in this case it's down to the idea that the mechs do have some interchangeable parts, and that even on different mechs, and ammo loading door, or heatsink have a similar appearance. I do intend to make some more basic shapes so that there's not too much repeated objects in the textures, but not right now.
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Postby LeonKerensky » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:41 am

i agree that certain details are important to that certain mech, and would like to help with making the skins.

if this is a project with a time limit, than we should do the simplest and most effective method possible.

But if we have all the time in the world, than we can just make the detailed map for each mech, and go down the list one at a time.

thanks, Leon
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Postby felderup » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:53 pm

let's not get crazy with the disk space use.
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Postby LeonKerensky » Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:12 am

felderup wrote:let's not get crazy with the disk space use.


true... bitmaps for textures (depending on it's size) would take how much space?
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Postby felderup » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:14 pm

256x256x32 would be 262k, 30 of them would be nearly 9m, so, there would be textures for buildings, mechs, vehicles, infantry, all kinds of things, lots more that 30.
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