warhammer 2570 variant

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warhammer 2570 variant

Postby elitewolverine » Tue May 13, 2008 7:15 am

Well we have the reseen mech and the DA version of the warhammer...and i know that we have 'multiple' threads but i think since this is a reseen unseen da mecha this thread will show a specific variant

so here it is for all the original fans out there...i tried my hardest to get as much detail in this puppy and keep it under 2k polys...and im happy...

this poly count includes missle silo covers that can open when armed/fired and as well with the guns on it....

since there will be "custom" versions, these can be taken off and well other stuff added, but i was making a version for the stock variant...and wanted to make sure it was still under 2k....

poly count (since blender again does both quads and tris) is under 1850...

and here is the wip let me know what you guys think before i start to texture it....

ImageImage
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Postby Matti » Wed May 14, 2008 4:47 am

At least it looks like WHM-6R :D
...
Except light weapons seems to be missing...
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars
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Postby elitewolverine » Wed May 14, 2008 5:22 am

oh yea lol, well according to them even the barrels of the arms will be added later...as well as the srm launcher.....

but as im texturing it, i will go ahead and add them because this is going to be the mesh for the base warhammer, so yea i should add them lol

good to see someone likes the oldie hehe

i tried to follow the older tro's and pictures the best i could with the lowest polys i could....that 'head' area probably took a good deal of the poly count....was very hard to keep this under 2k...but i think well worth it...
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Postby Smoking_Mirror » Wed May 14, 2008 11:32 am

In edit mode select all polys and hit Ctr T or set triangulate quads in the editing window menu.

It'll convert all polys to true triangles, just in case there are any quads left over from modeling. It'd be tragic to go way over the limit after going to the effort of texturing.
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Postby elitewolverine » Thu May 15, 2008 2:55 am

lol yea that would suck...although for some reason that ctrl-t method for me just makes it look funny in some areas....

but its ok cause i use the dts exporter to export the mesh into a dts format so that i can view it in the torque showtool because if not i wouldnt know what normals i need to correct, cause even without the double sided selected in blender, it can still show the normals wrong without apply scale-rotation (ctrl-a)...

because one time i exported into obj format, fired up max/maya to see if it exported right, and even though in blender it showed ok, it was off in max/maya weird i think its a bug to be honest i should report it on blender.org...

but im happy to say its at like 1784 tris when viewed in torque...so i thankfully have enough room to add those weapons the other guy was talking about and i can safely start the texture on it...

which is good cause the/my kodiak is half way modeled as well :)

small edit: just updated the model before texturing...redid the feet for better geometry at the toes and added the barrels to the head and torso...and talk about close wow 1970 triangles...just wow its close but im happy its under 2k i hope future mechs arent as difficult lol...
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Postby Smoking_Mirror » Thu May 15, 2008 10:29 am

It's not a bug, you have to select all in edit mode and then "recalculate normals outside" this switches all the normals so that they face the same way (outwards).

You can see it in Blender if you set all faces to "smooth". Any problem areas will show up as strange black spots.

And yes, when you switch to triangles rather than quads it can cause problems, either because the angles are strange or because the normals need to be recalculated again.
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Postby elitewolverine » Thu May 15, 2008 11:31 am

ok my first draft was way to long...lol

i use that method alot, in terms of ctrl-n in edit mode, but i model certain details a certain way to keep the poly count low, no matter how i autocalc it comes out wrong some normals that were ok get calc you wrong and face the wrong way (loose verts sometimes)....but when you mirror something no matter what the verts get messed up, a simple flip vert button fixes that, but i wanted a easier way. So i did it in object mode, and it seemed to fix it because after mirroring all the normals stayed the way they were supposed to...so i figured great, but it was a false positive, and unless you hit ctrl-a in object mode, not matter how many recalcs you do in edit more it will not fix the problem...its so odd, and caused me to revert to a older orion save because i couldnt figure out why even though blender showed good normals torque did not...

its a odd 'bug' if you will cause unless you hit ctrl-a it will always export wrong despite blender and edit and recalc etc telling you different...

i use both methods depends on what/why im doing it in the model...but im glad i found that because it caused a 3hr hiccup in my orion model...

hopefully by tomorrow i can have something to post in terms of updates to the texture....hopefully ;) and hopefully a better result as well...

here is a tease of what a exploded ortho graphic view of faces looks like, its not detailed yet and not even fully exploded yet (center torso, head, feet need to be added). I feel that for me which has very little photoshop experience will offer the best way to model details on a 2d plane and manipulate blender materials on the mesh that has been exploded (huge for me) and if i save a base exploded mesh i can do mutliple detail patters etc etc....the versatility to me outways the time needed to explode the model, and being able to have a editable 2d/3d mesh is way cooler than photoshop (as you can tell i dont like photoshop lol)

orthor view left, side view of the exploded 3d model in progress lol...

ImageImage

p.s. hope you dont mind the constant posting i do lol i dont know what the acceptable level of drible i should post...i like to post pics alot sooo yea
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Postby Smoking_Mirror » Thu May 15, 2008 3:27 pm

yes, if you mirror something in Blender everything is reversed, including normals direction.

You have an interesting method. You may find it easier to join everything in to one mesh from the beginning if you haven't already. You can split it apart latter by selecting what you want to split and then pressing P in edit mode.

I'm sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know, I don't know what kind of level you are at with blender, and because of the nature of the program, being open source, there are often features which experienced users will say, "wow, I didn't know about that key, never used it before". There's no approved list of tutorials, or training levels, so everyone learns things in a different order.

I still don't know much about particles or animation. Just learning them now.
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Postby elitewolverine » Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

ah dont worry about it i never disclosed how much i knew in blender, i learn new stuff alot, like the whole apply rotation thing (although i think its a bug) and other such things like baking etc...and as well i dont mind your suggestions either cause i like to see how other people do things etc, and since low poly is new as well as actually texturing (besides the basic uv stuff or other things in the materials section threw trial/error/play)

but as well ive been using it for about 5yrs now i think. I at first duplicated the main warhammer then combined the meshes into one thinking it would be easier, but it didnt allow me to explode the parts one by one and then manuver them in the camera view...

right now im trying to find a simply, easy, way to texturing, so far i have 3 methods. The orion style to me was the fastest, but it wont offer i think custom things that i can do with this method...

this method is so far the longest to implement in terms of having top explode etc but i believe will result in the most verstile way to manipulate the texture materials etc into different files and what not...

its funny you mention the p split, cause i use that to help keep the poly count low instead of cutting the whole part i can just cut the faces i want etc....but its also that same method that sometimes will result in causing normals to not recalc right when you hit ctrl-n...lol odd stuff...

hopefully tonight the warhammer will be done and ill be moving on to finish the kodiak...
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Postby elitewolverine » Tue May 20, 2008 4:11 am

was hoping this was done sooner but oddly i slept almost straight for the last few days (save work)

but here is my warhammer textured, in base grey, and me playing with blender materials, did a ghostbear get a hold of the old warhammer??? lol

Image
Image
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Postby Smoking_Mirror » Tue May 20, 2008 2:52 pm

Hey, looks great, I think you're definitely getting the hang of low poly modeling.

Next if you want to try textures I suggest working with mapzone an interesting free image editing program which takes a different approach from traditional programs like inkscape or the gimp. This one is simply for producing tile able textures and procedural textures.

You only have to get it right once and you have a good texture builder for every model you make.

Takes some learning though...
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Postby elitewolverine » Tue May 20, 2008 8:32 pm

ill take a look at it, right now im just messing with the procedurals in blender...that blue texture is a mix between cloud and marble...since the actual picture i take for the texture file is just a blender material kinda thing, i can play with it over and over rendering different things with the blender materials...and save them as different things and apply it with one click via material for all of them...

the only thing it kinda lacks is the whole decal bit...but i think that can be applied via photoshop...

mapzone, hmm havent heard of it to much but ill definately take a look, and i hope mapzone is easier than photoshop/gimp to produce textures cause the blender game engine doesnt support blender materials fully yet, and so i do need a easy way to make nice textures....maybe this is the answer...thanks
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Postby elitewolverine » Tue May 27, 2008 10:20 am

here is a small idea for the warhammer cockpit....

the warhammer has abit of a skinny cockpit, and to me is a long range type of fighter....as such i kinda wanted the cockpit to look abit like a fighter plane style...

theres still some more buttons etc to put on it, and maybe add abit more button lights to some other things but this is what im looking at so far

Image
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Postby Hana Yuriko » Wed May 28, 2008 12:48 am

The only problem I have with this is the relatively small amount of real estate you've given the actual game. It's the same gripe I've had with a number of flight sims. Too much cockpit, not enough sky.
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Postby elitewolverine » Wed May 28, 2008 4:00 am

very true

but i believe we can make the instruments actually read real time feedback instead of just static pictures...

ie the radar screen on the legs will be the real radar screen so it needs to be in the scene...same with all the MFD's one for damage, one for weapons etc...now if its just static and asthetics only, then i agree i have given it way to much realestate...

but at the same time, this is the actual "real estate" offered by the model itself...and TRO's

i used the warhammer model and actual size to derive the cockpit, so the windows wont get any bigger inside the warhammer...or other mechs for that matter...

I have flown small prop planes and believe me your visibility is not what you think it is (flight sim or not), your constantly tilting your head abit to get a better view but in the end you realize your limited view point, this includes the side windows...its also a reason a plane will "bob" from side to side when sight seeing, so you can get a better view...but trust me even in flight sims the visibility in real life is "low"

Fighter pilots get the luxury of a high high seat compared to small prop/jetplanes, and also the luxury of open canopies for sight in war, but the truth is foward sight is limited, mainly because they dont want you to have to move your head so much that it distracts your flying.

i sat in a f-14, and f-16, front visibility is low but every other angle great, mainly because you dont fly straight in a dog fight...what sims lack is not "realestate" but the ability to add that extra sight we can with the look of our eyes.

so the only thing i could do is move the camera foward into making it look like you have more realesate...but in reality you loose some side sight, cause in the end the cockpit itself is what limits the view not the instruments...

here is what i mean....one without instruments and one with...in the end its the same amount of real estate in a 'box"...(the camera was moved just a tad foward for this shot, but lost some side visibility in the process)

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